Comments on: Seam vs Spring Web Flow – vs Wicket http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/ Open Source Projects & Technical Writings Wed, 18 Jan 2012 00:05:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: sree http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-16080 sree Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:03:54 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-16080 Hi Andy, we are discussing on which framework to use 1. Spring webflow 2. JBPM (drools, jbpm 5). I have experience in implementing projects using spring webflow but not JBPM. The project it self uses complex user interactions as well as SOAP calls and Quartz jobs to perform certain tasks. Please help in understanding in knowing technologies that can be best used for this project. Thanks Sree Hi Andy,

we are discussing on which framework to use 1. Spring webflow 2. JBPM (drools, jbpm 5). I have experience in implementing projects using spring webflow but not JBPM. The project it self uses complex user interactions as well as SOAP calls and Quartz jobs to perform certain tasks. Please help in understanding in knowing technologies that can be best used for this project.

Thanks
Sree

]]> By: Andy Gibson http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14404 Andy Gibson Thu, 04 Mar 2010 00:26:27 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14404 You know, I keep looking at trying to get the source for it all out of the door, but every time I look at it, I start wondering about the best way to deal with it given that none of it is in maven and they have dependencies required to run. I think I may have to just release the source and put it out there for people to peruse. I'm not sure how much it would help since just about every piece of source code is in the final articles. I'm trying to get another open source project released, but I'll try and squeeze it in there, even if it is just the code source with no easy way to build and run it. Cheers, Andy You know, I keep looking at trying to get the source for it all out of the door, but every time I look at it, I start wondering about the best way to deal with it given that none of it is in maven and they have dependencies required to run. I think I may have to just release the source and put it out there for people to peruse. I’m not sure how much it would help since just about every piece of source code is in the final articles.
I’m trying to get another open source project released, but I’ll try and squeeze it in there, even if it is just the code source with no easy way to build and run it.

Cheers,

Andy

]]> By: Zardosht http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14403 Zardosht Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:02:33 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14403 Hi Andy, thanks a lot for this thorough and practical comparison. Any news from source code? this would help me so much, even if it does'nt work directly :) thanks. Hi Andy,
thanks a lot for this thorough and practical comparison. Any news from source code? this would help me so much, even if it does’nt work directly :)

thanks.

]]> By: PianoPlanet http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14273 PianoPlanet Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:03:43 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14273 <strong>PianoPlanet...</strong> Megacool Blog indeed!... if anyone else has anything it would be much appreciated. Great website Enjoy!... PianoPlanet…

Megacool Blog indeed!… if anyone else has anything it would be much appreciated. Great website Enjoy!…

]]> By: Andy Gibson http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14258 Andy Gibson Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:20:28 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14258 Hi Scott, I have thought about including the source and have no problems doing so. I am just not sure of the best way to release it in a way that is usable. If I release it as-is, chances are that it can't be run without an appropriate IDE and having the appropriate jars included. Of course, there is still plenty of value in just looking at the source code, most of which is already in the articles. I'll try and take another look at it soon. Cheers, Andy Gibson Hi Scott,

I have thought about including the source and have no problems doing so. I am just not sure of the best way to release it in a way that is usable. If I release it as-is, chances are that it can’t be run without an appropriate IDE and having the appropriate jars included. Of course, there is still plenty of value in just looking at the source code, most of which is already in the articles.
I’ll try and take another look at it soon.

Cheers,

Andy Gibson

]]> By: Scott Langley http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14252 Scott Langley Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:59:35 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14252 Hi Andy, Is the complete source code for these projects posted some where? I think it would make for a useful learning tutorial - at least for me. I'll try going through the steps as described anyway. Regards, Scott Langley Hi Andy,

Is the complete source code for these projects posted some where? I think it would make for a useful learning tutorial – at least for me. I’ll try going through the steps as described anyway.

Regards,

Scott Langley

]]> By: Andy Gibson http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14233 Andy Gibson Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:56:05 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14233 In all cases, you have to fetch the data which in JSF terms, means assigning it a name which makes it available to the view as a named EL expression. You have to put a line of code in the view HTML or JSF page to place the component, and in Wicket you assign it an Id. In JSF, you could/should assign it an id, but you could just bind it to the EL variable. In Wicket, you then have to declare the component in the java page and add it to the page which is an extra step of approximately one line per visual component. If you need to use a DTO between your domain model and your view, then chances are that this stage is equal among all frameworks, although I haven't had any problems binding my view to my domain model so far. In all cases, you have to fetch the data which in JSF terms, means assigning it a name which makes it available to the view as a named EL expression. You have to put a line of code in the view HTML or JSF page to place the component, and in Wicket you assign it an Id. In JSF, you could/should assign it an id, but you could just bind it to the EL variable. In Wicket, you then have to declare the component in the java page and add it to the page which is an extra step of approximately one line per visual component. If you need to use a DTO between your domain model and your view, then chances are that this stage is equal among all frameworks, although I haven’t had any problems binding my view to my domain model so far.

]]> By: wilfred http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14232 wilfred Sun, 06 Sep 2009 02:02:53 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14232 "...the view and hook them up to the source data. " I've used Spring MVC heavily in projects and have a look at Wicket recently. I found that from time to time I have to prepare the data from the domain object model in such a manner that the "view" (mostly jsp) can use them comfortably. I usually assign these responsibilities to the "controllers". From time to time I have to create intermediate objects to make the preparation. In Wicket they recognize such "intermediate objects" as "model". So unless that is a trivial page view, "hook them up to the source data" is not an extra process, but an existing one that has to be addressed anyway. “…the view and hook them up to the source data. ” I’ve used Spring MVC heavily in projects and have a look at Wicket recently. I found that from time to time I have to prepare the data from the domain object model in such a manner that the “view” (mostly jsp) can use them comfortably. I usually assign these responsibilities to the “controllers”. From time to time I have to create intermediate objects to make the preparation. In Wicket they recognize such “intermediate objects” as “model”. So unless that is a trivial page view, “hook them up to the source data” is not an extra process, but an existing one that has to be addressed anyway.

]]> By: Andy Gibson http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14037 Andy Gibson Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:06:00 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14037 Hi Jason, that's great news, I was basing my statements on the original <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java/web/will-it-play-in-app-engine" rel="nofollow">Will it play in App Engine</a> list which listed the technologies that will and won't run in the google app engine. It seems that list has been updated to indicate that JSF will run with a tweak or two. Nice. Alastair, for the most part I agree, except that sometimes that Lego does meet your needs and you get a lot of productivity out of it and it makes it easier to train people without having to get into some of the more complex webby stuff. Wicket also abstracts the HTTP pieces, but as you say, you need to be a good coder and for some people, I think it's easier to teach them to use Lego than to be a good Java coder. I do wish Wicket were more popular though, certainly in the jobs market. I prefer component frameworks and only JSF has really made a dent in the market. Beyond that it is mostly Struts and Spring MVC. Yeah, I remember the pain of Delphi components and trying to get 3rd party components to do what I needed. Hi Jason, that’s great news, I was basing my statements on the original Will it play in App Engine list which listed the technologies that will and won’t run in the google app engine. It seems that list has been updated to indicate that JSF will run with a tweak or two. Nice.

Alastair, for the most part I agree, except that sometimes that Lego does meet your needs and you get a lot of productivity out of it and it makes it easier to train people without having to get into some of the more complex webby stuff. Wicket also abstracts the HTTP pieces, but as you say, you need to be a good coder and for some people, I think it’s easier to teach them to use Lego than to be a good Java coder.

I do wish Wicket were more popular though, certainly in the jobs market. I prefer component frameworks and only JSF has really made a dent in the market. Beyond that it is mostly Struts and Spring MVC.

Yeah, I remember the pain of Delphi components and trying to get 3rd party components to do what I needed.

]]> By: Alastair Maw http://www.andygibson.net/blog/article/seam-versus-spring-web-flow-versus-wicket/comment-page-1/#comment-14035 Alastair Maw Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:45:46 +0000 http://www.andygibson.net/blog/?p=367#comment-14035 IMO the key strength of Wicket is that it specifically does not aim to provide you a bunch of complex components that you can use out of the box. The problem with such things is that they never quite do what you want. Instead it provides you with extremely powerful abstractions and building blocks for you to craft reusable components yourself. If you're no good at writing code and want to play with lego instead, pick something else. If you want a powerful abstraction that leaks remarkably little that lets you easily build truly reusable components across your company, Wicket is for you. So in that regard, Wicket isn't really like assembler at all. It's much more like Java - the basics are simple and powerful, and it has a good set of comprehensive abstractions just like the JRE does. Seam is more like C++, in that you need to manage things much more and work harder to make things work, err, seamlessly (ho ho). JSF is much more like Delphi. It comes with a bunch of components that promise the world but don't quite do what you want, and even has a healthy set of third-party components you can buy that promise to make your life easy, but still don't do what you want. So you end up implementing your own and hating every minute of it. ;-) IMO the key strength of Wicket is that it specifically does not aim to provide you a bunch of complex components that you can use out of the box. The problem with such things is that they never quite do what you want. Instead it provides you with extremely powerful abstractions and building blocks for you to craft reusable components yourself.

If you’re no good at writing code and want to play with lego instead, pick something else. If you want a powerful abstraction that leaks remarkably little that lets you easily build truly reusable components across your company, Wicket is for you.

So in that regard, Wicket isn’t really like assembler at all. It’s much more like Java – the basics are simple and powerful, and it has a good set of comprehensive abstractions just like the JRE does.

Seam is more like C++, in that you need to manage things much more and work harder to make things work, err, seamlessly (ho ho).

JSF is much more like Delphi. It comes with a bunch of components that promise the world but don’t quite do what you want, and even has a healthy set of third-party components you can buy that promise to make your life easy, but still don’t do what you want. So you end up implementing your own and hating every minute of it. ;-)

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